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[Music]

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

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have your paradigm shifted in the truths

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questioned and now shattered reality

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well Kate all right here we are good

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that's right uh-huh and it's

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unbelievable because this is show number

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55 it's even more unbelievable room list

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at the end of September yeah yeah that's

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three months to Christmas I mean this is

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crazy fast stuff going past yeah I think

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time does pass at different speeds it

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certainly does things differently over

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the you know of the vast reaches of

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space but that notwithstanding what do

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we have to do first we need to slate yes

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slating things good yes today is

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September 26th 2017 and we are shattered

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reality podcast and we have an extra

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special show for you today the first

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part of our show is going to be with a

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wonderful woman who I'm going to

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introduce in a minute who this woman is

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a doctor and a UFO specialist and she is

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really an impressive person our second

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guest is in our listeners corner at the

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very end of the show where people who

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are listeners get an opportunity to tell

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their stories and I'm going to tell you

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who that is right away before I get into

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introducing our main guest that's going

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to be Anthony sands who also who is a

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well-known painter in the magical

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realism school and a long-term teacher

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at the Fashion Institute of Technology

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in painting drawing and two-dimensional

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to

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of the show but right now we are really

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really proud to present the author of

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UFOs today 70 years of lies

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misinformation and government cover-up

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let's all welcome dr. Irene McCammon

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Scott Irina McCammon Scott dr. Irina

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McCammon Scott okay dr. Scott welcome to

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the show yes well thank you for inviting

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me I'm glad to be here I I guess the

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first question that we almost always ask

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people is how did you get interested in

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this what was the draw into ufology for

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you well I'm I'm not you I follow just

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exactly as like nobody makes a living at

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this I've been in something else but I

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was always interested in astronomy ever

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since I remember as a small child and I

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went to school and astronomy and went to

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Ohio State University and graduated but

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I couldn't get a job in astronomy

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because I was a female mm-hmm all the

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places I applied to wouldn't give me an

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application because it was male only Wow

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and so I had to go into something else

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and so they were mapping the moon and

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other planets and they took females so

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that kind of worked for mapping and

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cartography and so I played for that and

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got into it but I got a high security

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clearances and they and I transferred to

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the Defense Intelligence Agency but I

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wound up map doing satellite photography

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on earth instead of other worlds like I

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wanted to yeah and at that time I got

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married and moved away and I had a

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offer a fellowship to go into physiology

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and get a PhD so that's what he did and

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I was a professor and worked in a number

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get worked in a number of institutions

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and research such as Cornell and Ohio

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State in different places that's quite a

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jump from astronomy into physiology yeah

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and well you were you an actual

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veterinarian or did I misunderstand that

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somewhere in your bio I graduated from

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the University of Missouri asks College

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of Veterinary Medicine but I got a PhD

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instead of a vet degree I see that

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wasn't easy back then either to get into

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vet school for a woman either

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no now if you didn't want to be a

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secretary gym teacher a nurse he was

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sort of yeah anyway so yeah you know

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it's funny people I was very interested

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in UFOs too and people would always ask

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me well how did you get into UFOs and I

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never liked you I never really hadn't

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like an epiphany like a real solid

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answer like you know one day I saw one

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and then from there on and I was

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interested and and I sense that with you

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to like it was something that was always

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on the back burner from childhood up

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right and and you finally really looked

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into it yeah what does I mean you know

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it's it's sort of a thankless haleyss

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the hobby interest more than anything I

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just want to mention how interesting

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your book is for not only it's just this

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a compendium of knowledge there about

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the UFO subject but it's from a real

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insider perspective and even the cases

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many of the cases that people who have

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read other ufology books have read about

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such as Roswell and the flatwoods

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monster and the chase over

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Ohio into Pennsylvania with the police

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officers that the police officers all

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kind of have difficult lives after that

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the detail and the insider information

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that you added to those accounts was

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truly amazing well that's one reason I

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wrote the book is I had actually worked

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on the inside of some of the places that

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were exploring UFOs such as I had been

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stationed off and on at wright-patterson

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I knew somebody and their

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wright-patterson Air Force Base and

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they're heavily involved in UFOs they

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were housed Bluebook and those

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organizations and I'd also worked at

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Mattel Memorial Institute and they had

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done a study of UFOs and I worked for

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the Defense Intelligence Agency and they

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were working on UFOs Elda I never worked

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directly on UFOs but I was there and

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kind of knew the ins and outs and gossip

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and different things like that I think

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everybody or not maybe everybody but the

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majority of the listeners have some clue

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as to what went on at wright-patterson I

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mean they not they might not be

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obviously probably if they haven't read

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their book your book would have the kind

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of knowledge that you are exploring with

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wright-patterson but I think that people

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have heard of Wright Field at becoming

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bright Patterson field and how probably

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they have debris from Roswell was

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transported there but could you give us

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a little bit more information about what

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Patel Institute is exactly because I

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believe that many of our listeners have

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never heard of it it's a I think it's

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the world's largest let me say

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independent research organization or

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nonprofit research organization it's

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right across the street from Ohio State

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University and well connected with them

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and it's done a whole lot in innovation

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it was the

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developers of the Xerox and of the CD

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and it was heavily involved in the

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Manhattan Project developing the atomic

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bomb and it's been real active and a lot

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of things that in our everyday world

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interesting especially about a part the

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part about the Xerox stuff because if

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memory serves me correctly and I could

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be wrong about this that the the UVA

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division of perceptual studies down in

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Virginia you know university of virginia

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department of perceptual studies I

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believe was largely funded by the man

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who was behind Xerox are you aware of

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that no I wasn't that's interesting

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because um they do a lot of work on

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psychokinesis people that I kind of know

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and also they do a bunch of work on past

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lives with dr. Ian Stevenson

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and now today with dr. Jim Tucker but

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they got a huge grant to my knowledge

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from the gentleman whose name whose

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first name was like Clarence or

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something of that nature who was the

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Xerox just you know what scientist I

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don't know but that's that's what I

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think but I don't want to go too far

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afield with that but we grow interested

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in more information to me later I

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absolutely will send you more

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information on that I absolutely will I

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was particularly interested in part of

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the things that you were talking about

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when you work for the DIA where there

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was information coming in to you not you

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particularly but to your office so to

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speak about objects that there were

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photographs of that everybody concluded

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were actual physical objects and the DIA

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and the CIA were kind of disagreeing and

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the CIA

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was talking about it being an optical

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illusion and everybody knew it wasn't

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can you elaborate on that yes I was

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working in section called the air order

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of battle this was a section where we

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looked at a certain territory in the

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world and we were supposed to identify

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any type of aircraft in that area it was

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really highly classified work with

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security clearances about above

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top-secret and so we went about our

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normal work of identifying aircraft and

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we generally knew what aircraft we were

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looking at we were supposed to look at

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different types and know what target

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them which meant no say where they were

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and that sort of thing and that would be

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if UFOs were craft that would be you

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think that would be a place where the

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government would be studying the

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photography to look for crafts yes but

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in my work and in my section of work

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there was nothing said about UFOs we

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were supposed to identify everything as

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an airplane or whatever and so my

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supervisors saw what they thought was a

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UFO and I thought so too they reported

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it to their higher-ups and we were

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supposed to be the experts I mean we

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were the experts on this territory of

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the world

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we were supposed to be the top experts

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and our identification zwarst supposed

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to be correct so my supervisors reported

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this as a UFO and I saw the pictures and

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everything and it was on at least two

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missions not exactly the same place but

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then looking

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me at all and I could sit in sterile

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still stereoscopically and things and so

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anyway the superiors got back to my

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supervisors and said no it wasn't it was

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a flaw in the film which made no sense

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to anybody because it wasn't a flaw in

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the film for one thing was on two films

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and you could see him and look at him

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and see you know reducer enlarge the

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image of one or the other and see him in

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stereo seem stereoscopically was how

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definite was and so the supervisors went

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to some other experts that were told it

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could tell whether something was a flaw

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on the film or not and the people said

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no this isn't the specialist said no

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this is not a flaw in film it's real but

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the supervisors kept right on saying

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it's a flaw on the film which was pretty

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insulting because we were supposedly in

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heat and they treated us just like we

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were nobodies so they the CIA and the

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DIA disagreed you being with the DIA I

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can you in some way describe for us what

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the object looked like on the film well

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I don't know if it was a CIA I mean I

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was working for the DIA and I think our

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our reports went to the CIA but it

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wasn't the whole DIA it was just our

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section of air or battle and I see in

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the DIA what it looked like was a it

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looked basically kind of like the saucer

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shape it was round with a real big dome

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and no features aside from that okay so

273
00:15:28,670 --> 00:15:25,620
yeah its surface look like you know an

274
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:28,680
airplane or a craft or something is it

275
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:31,050
that typical brushed aluminum look that

276
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:34,920
so widely mentioned I think in general

277
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:35,910
it was

278
00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:38,910
I don't exactly but I remember it looked

279
00:15:43,980 --> 00:15:41,200
like a craft anyway

280
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:43,990
and I think in in your book you kind of

281
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:47,170
describe it as that but that the dome

282
00:15:54,379 --> 00:15:50,649
was rather higher than the average UFO

283
00:15:56,699 --> 00:15:54,389
sighting was in general in in those days

284
00:15:59,759 --> 00:15:56,709
it looked like it but I wasn't sure

285
00:16:04,470 --> 00:15:59,769
because I could use a photography from

286
00:16:06,090 --> 00:16:04,480
two different missions and gotten so the

287
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,100
same size and I could look at it in

288
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:08,079
stereo but that was kind of a different

289
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:11,440
way of looking at it from usual but I so

290
00:16:17,490 --> 00:16:14,800
I wasn't real sure it was there any idea

291
00:16:20,370 --> 00:16:17,500
how fast it was going it was on to the

292
00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:20,380
missions and it had shifted it was over

293
00:16:24,210 --> 00:16:21,910
water and you could tell it wasn't in

294
00:16:26,009 --> 00:16:24,220
the water it had shifted its position a

295
00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:26,019
little bit each mission was 90 minutes

296
00:16:34,050 --> 00:16:31,630
and we just saw um two missions but for

297
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:34,060
90 minutes it was in the same general

298
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:37,810
area why don't we take a stop right now

299
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:42,370
and let Irina mention the name of her

300
00:16:46,530 --> 00:16:44,680
book again and all of that because we

301
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:46,540
like to make sure that our listeners

302
00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:49,510
hear that a couple of three times you

303
00:16:57,060 --> 00:16:54,670
know okay the name is UFOs today 70

304
00:17:00,509 --> 00:16:57,070
years of lies misinformation and

305
00:17:03,660 --> 00:17:00,519
government cover-up and you can order it

306
00:17:05,850 --> 00:17:03,670
from Amazon comm and it's pretty easy to

307
00:17:11,689 --> 00:17:05,860
find on the Internet just put irina

308
00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:11,699
scott and it should pop up okay okay so

309
00:17:18,510 --> 00:17:16,150
another thing that interested me for

310
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:18,520
particularly personal reasons because I

311
00:17:26,819 --> 00:17:23,439
am an experienced er it was the teenage

312
00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:26,829
boys in two different locations during

313
00:17:39,299 --> 00:17:33,580
around the same time who saw craft and

314
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:39,309
then saw beings come out of those craft

315
00:17:49,230 --> 00:17:45,250
and then they reported this are they

316
00:17:52,289 --> 00:17:49,240
were teenagers and then the the people

317
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:52,299
from the government purportedly called

318
00:17:57,620 --> 00:17:54,960
them up or contacted them

319
00:17:59,630 --> 00:17:57,630
and ask them about their dreams later on

320
00:18:03,590 --> 00:17:59,640
and whether they were out-of-body

321
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:03,600
whether they went out of body this with

322
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:06,090
two different sightings the one where

323
00:18:14,779 --> 00:18:11,690
the government called people up were the

324
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:14,789
pilots of a helicopter oh okay

325
00:18:20,690 --> 00:18:18,360
oh the coin helicopter okay I guess I

326
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:20,700
conflated the two two different parts

327
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:22,610
there sorry about that

328
00:18:29,330 --> 00:18:28,200
but that happened I don't know if you

329
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:29,340
don't know anything about coin

330
00:18:38,419 --> 00:18:34,559
helicopter do you no I don't actually

331
00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:38,429
oh no that's fine well know what kind of

332
00:18:43,340 --> 00:18:39,990
helicopter are they there's something

333
00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:43,350
special about them they were on there

334
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:45,630
they were on a trip from I think

335
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:51,210
Columbus to Mansfield Ohio and they saw

336
00:18:57,010 --> 00:18:54,000
a light and didn't pay attention to it

337
00:19:00,799 --> 00:18:57,020
and then it got nearer and nearer and

338
00:19:04,639 --> 00:19:00,809
finally it was over him and their

339
00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:04,649
cockpit turned green and there were I

340
00:19:12,139 --> 00:19:08,120
think there was some other effects and

341
00:19:14,980 --> 00:19:12,149
then then the object went away but for

342
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:14,990
some reason their helicopter

343
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:17,730
risen like several thousand feet and

344
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,640
when they tried to get control of it

345
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:22,320
again they almost crashed into the

346
00:19:27,260 --> 00:19:24,809
ground and there were other people that

347
00:19:32,830 --> 00:19:27,270
witnessed that and so it was a pretty

348
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:32,840
well known sighting and coin was the

349
00:19:38,990 --> 00:19:36,570
pilot and later on the government had

350
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:39,000
called him several times and asked about

351
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:43,770
his dreams well that sort of gets into

352
00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:46,320
your final conclusion to that rather

353
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:48,390
than continue to study along the

354
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:51,330
nuts-and-bolts line I have to get more

355
00:19:57,529 --> 00:19:53,250
into like a quantum mechanics

356
00:20:01,639 --> 00:19:57,539
consciousness type of a line yeah I

357
00:20:05,690 --> 00:20:01,649
agree I think it's a lot more I mean if

358
00:20:08,540 --> 00:20:05,700
you go the idea of spaceships or

359
00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:08,550
something from space or other planets

360
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:11,550
complicated enough but I think you the

361
00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:13,440
UFO phenomena might be a lot more

362
00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:14,670
complicated than that

363
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,750
yes it seems to be you know and everyone

364
00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:20,640
says oh it's a government cover-up but

365
00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:23,070
and I think a lot of information is

366
00:20:30,980 --> 00:20:25,020
perhaps shielded by the government but

367
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:30,990
you know I I I it's hard enough I just

368
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:32,910
don't think the government is capable of

369
00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:35,970
covering up the entire story I I think

370
00:20:41,450 --> 00:20:39,900
the the various information is so

371
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:41,460
dispersed throughout the government

372
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:45,120
there's so little desire to share it

373
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:48,330
that I just can't believe in a

374
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:49,860
government cover-up not that they

375
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:51,510
wouldn't do it but I just don't think

376
00:20:56,510 --> 00:20:53,490
they're capable of it to any great

377
00:21:00,190 --> 00:20:56,520
extent I have to go back here Kate to

378
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:00,200
our former guest dr. John B Alexander

379
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:04,710
mm-hm and say that the government isn't

380
00:21:11,210 --> 00:21:07,650
one thing as you know I mean it may not

381
00:21:13,820 --> 00:21:11,220
be that like the vice president knows

382
00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:13,830
all the secrets and is keeping them at

383
00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:16,740
the Naval Observatory from us but that

384
00:21:20,660 --> 00:21:18,270
there are lots of pockets of the

385
00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:20,670
government which are black ops projects

386
00:21:25,790 --> 00:21:23,190
that never see the light of day and many

387
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:25,800
of which are transferred over into the

388
00:21:32,510 --> 00:21:29,250
private sector into places like you know

389
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:32,520
Bigelow Aerospace or who was the guy who

390
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:35,730
said Ben Ben rich we can bring them you

391
00:21:43,610 --> 00:21:39,930
know the rich fellow I I skunk or skunk

392
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:43,620
works exactly so you know where I I

393
00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:45,120
don't believe the government like the

394
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:47,400
person at the Department of that's the

395
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:49,170
head of the Department of Agriculture or

396
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:51,810
something has probably no idea about any

397
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:53,970
kind of government cover-up about UFOs

398
00:21:57,740 --> 00:21:55,770
would be my guess you know what I'm

399
00:21:59,600 --> 00:21:57,750
saying okay yeah well yeah exactly

400
00:22:02,600 --> 00:21:59,610
that's the point but I think that's the

401
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:02,610
point dr. Scott is making too that there

402
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:04,530
has to be a whole different approach to

403
00:22:10,460 --> 00:22:08,640
it yes and but you also sort of hinted

404
00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:10,470
the fact that even though another

405
00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:13,470
approach would be called for you don't

406
00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:16,560
think that possibly we're not capable of

407
00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:19,140
it at this particular point in time is

408
00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:20,360
that so or that

409
00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:23,990
misunderstand well it was my impression

410
00:22:29,980 --> 00:22:26,870
after working for the government the

411
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:29,990
government isn't in unison and it was my

412
00:22:36,130 --> 00:22:34,090
impression that there's what your

413
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:36,140
clearances are top secret

414
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:38,450
and then there's Kobler word clearances

415
00:22:43,539 --> 00:22:40,130
above those and those are

416
00:22:46,750 --> 00:22:43,549
compartmentalized so one codeword maybe

417
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:46,760
for something and another maybe for

418
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:48,650
something else and you don't find out

419
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,090
what

420
00:22:56,289 --> 00:22:52,640
maybe somebody way at the top finds out

421
00:22:57,940 --> 00:22:56,299
what all code words are but the people

422
00:23:03,130 --> 00:22:57,950
that are working under the clearances

423
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:03,140
don't so if there's some place in the

424
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:04,850
government that knows about UFOs which

425
00:23:10,659 --> 00:23:07,730
I'm sure there is they would be in a

426
00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:10,669
compartmentalized place with a certain

427
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:14,900
code word and it wouldn't be a general

428
00:23:22,539 --> 00:23:16,610
government thing it would just be a few

429
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:22,549
people you know it's just well I do

430
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:24,320
think that always struck me is that when

431
00:23:28,060 --> 00:23:25,370
there was a sighting

432
00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:28,070
it seems that past Roswell that there's

433
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:30,350
been some other crashes that out of

434
00:23:34,930 --> 00:23:32,570
nowhere you suddenly get this government

435
00:23:36,669 --> 00:23:34,940
force they're within hours I mean maybe

436
00:23:39,130 --> 00:23:36,679
an hour right right right

437
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:39,140
you know like expert yeah exactly and I

438
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:41,510
mean these people come in there I mean

439
00:23:46,780 --> 00:23:43,490
but that means you have to have a whole

440
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:46,790
division ready to go in a second

441
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:49,730
notice that may not be utilized for a

442
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:52,250
year or two or three so the whole thing

443
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:55,250
is rather bizarre I think I don't know

444
00:23:59,380 --> 00:23:57,530
it sure is bizarre

445
00:24:02,380 --> 00:23:59,390
well you know like you dr. Scott ins

446
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,390
who's like I read all the stories every

447
00:24:06,460 --> 00:24:04,400
time someone says Roswell I almost feel

448
00:24:08,650 --> 00:24:06,470
like there should be a mm-hmm you know

449
00:24:12,580 --> 00:24:08,660
like a musical background like like the

450
00:24:14,740 --> 00:24:12,590
Holy Grail but I've never came to any

451
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:14,750
conclusion never ever

452
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:17,360
well I've got to come to the conclusion

453
00:24:24,730 --> 00:24:20,720
that it's not all one thing and even

454
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:24,740
when like in your book that dr. Irena

455
00:24:32,620 --> 00:24:30,559
Scott there there is the fact that two

456
00:24:33,550 --> 00:24:32,630
people such as you have mentioned two

457
00:24:36,910 --> 00:24:33,560
sisters

458
00:24:39,070 --> 00:24:36,920
who saw two different things they both

459
00:24:42,130 --> 00:24:39,080
saw something but they saw two different

460
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:42,140
things so I've got to believe that the

461
00:24:48,850 --> 00:24:45,200
the non-human intelligences that are

462
00:24:52,570 --> 00:24:48,860
involved with these sightings and with

463
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:52,580
these proposed crafts are taking

464
00:24:59,770 --> 00:24:55,730
advantage of things that are already in

465
00:25:03,160 --> 00:24:59,780
our minds and using those images and

466
00:25:06,490 --> 00:25:03,170
portraying those images to us where the

467
00:25:09,310 --> 00:25:06,500
real truth could be something else in

468
00:25:11,050 --> 00:25:09,320
other words they may be projecting that

469
00:25:14,020 --> 00:25:11,060
they look like humanoids when they

470
00:25:17,730 --> 00:25:14,030
really look like lobsters or they're

471
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:17,740
just protoplasm or whatever like that

472
00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:21,110
and and the the particular sighting that

473
00:25:26,350 --> 00:25:23,750
you had mentioned about the two sisters

474
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:26,360
seeing two entirely separate things

475
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:29,360
brought that to mind but I am really

476
00:25:36,430 --> 00:25:32,930
personally interested in the the fellows

477
00:25:38,110 --> 00:25:36,440
on the helicopter where and I confused

478
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:38,120
that with the story before which was

479
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:40,010
about the two teenagers in two different

480
00:25:46,540 --> 00:25:41,690
parts of the country so I apologize for

481
00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:46,550
that but but that they somebody asked

482
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:50,260
them about their dreams and if they were

483
00:25:57,070 --> 00:25:53,330
going out-of-body because as I said I'm

484
00:25:59,710 --> 00:25:57,080
an experiencer I saw stuff I got dreams

485
00:26:01,770 --> 00:25:59,720
I felt like I was being pulled out of my

486
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:01,780
body at different time so that's all

487
00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:07,310
really seminal information for me what

488
00:26:12,010 --> 00:26:09,980
was it was very interesting to me too

489
00:26:14,020 --> 00:26:12,020
because the government if they're

490
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:14,030
exploring things like that they don't

491
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:16,850
let it be known and they actually called

492
00:26:22,660 --> 00:26:20,450
the pilot and asked him and called

493
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:22,670
several times what his dreams were and

494
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:26,530
they wanted to know specific things and

495
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:30,890
what I one thing I was interested in was

496
00:26:38,050 --> 00:26:34,850
when they the object was above their

497
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:38,060
helicopter the cockpit lit up in green

498
00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:43,090
yes and I've noticed in other instances

499
00:26:47,470 --> 00:26:46,700
where there's green tractor beams or

500
00:26:50,890 --> 00:26:47,480
work

501
00:26:54,220 --> 00:26:50,900
there's green events on an airplane or

502
00:26:57,330 --> 00:26:54,230
something yes the electronics go haywire

503
00:27:00,610 --> 00:26:57,340
and different things like that and so

504
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:00,620
and also in the case of the helicopter

505
00:27:05,650 --> 00:27:03,110
it seemed to rise up in the air and

506
00:27:07,870 --> 00:27:05,660
nobody knew anything about it and so I

507
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:07,880
was wondering if there might have just

508
00:27:12,490 --> 00:27:11,120
been some type of abduction taking place

509
00:27:15,730 --> 00:27:12,500
then although it would have been quite

510
00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:15,740
fast and that maybe the government

511
00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:18,740
thought that it was investigating well I

512
00:27:24,130 --> 00:27:22,070
guess I guess it might have and the time

513
00:27:26,620 --> 00:27:24,140
dimension may have been breached in

514
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:26,630
other words they could have been gone

515
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:29,930
out of the helicopter for forty-five

516
00:27:36,850 --> 00:27:33,890
seconds but if they were somehow made to

517
00:27:40,930 --> 00:27:36,860
remember and I have mixed very mixed

518
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:40,940
feelings on hypnotic regression but if

519
00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:43,910
somehow that could be done in a in a

520
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:47,390
careful and very professional way that

521
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:50,450
we might find out something else but

522
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:54,370
it's amazing how many people report

523
00:28:01,930 --> 00:27:58,010
being pulled out of their body after a

524
00:28:07,810 --> 00:28:01,940
UFO sighting I guess was my main point

525
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:07,820
of that yeah and in terms of of green

526
00:28:12,910 --> 00:28:10,910
the green light and and also the

527
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:12,920
something else you mentioned about a

528
00:28:17,530 --> 00:28:15,170
gentleman who was a scientist who began

529
00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:17,540
to see a number of UFOs and I kind of

530
00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:19,670
feel a little bit to a much lesser

531
00:28:24,730 --> 00:28:22,160
degree in that category because I have

532
00:28:27,010 --> 00:28:24,740
seen small green orbs that were

533
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:27,020
fluorescent green on two or three

534
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:31,970
different occasions so and and some of

535
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:34,880
them were in the context of a woman that

536
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:39,730
I have known who was involved with

537
00:28:47,050 --> 00:28:43,310
ritual rather than UFOs she was more

538
00:28:50,530 --> 00:28:47,060
involved with ritual practices but there

539
00:28:54,910 --> 00:28:50,540
were definitely green orbs and in her

540
00:28:57,010 --> 00:28:54,920
context in more than one time when I was

541
00:29:00,760 --> 00:28:57,020
at two different houses which she

542
00:29:02,860 --> 00:29:00,770
inhabited at both times I saw orbs

543
00:29:05,919 --> 00:29:02,870
you know one time in the house one time

544
00:29:08,169 --> 00:29:05,929
outside the other house so the green the

545
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:08,179
green coloring it does hit a spot for me

546
00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:11,170
because because of my own experiences

547
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:15,380
well there's been a number of cases such

548
00:29:29,140 --> 00:29:20,690
as green beans that appear to be tractor

549
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:29,150
beams pull somebody in or across and did

550
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:31,130
you try to take videos or anything in

551
00:29:37,330 --> 00:29:34,130
the green orbs no I was you know I was a

552
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:37,340
social visitor both times to her home

553
00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:40,970
one of which was near Monroe New York

554
00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:44,750
the other of which was in Tucson Arizona

555
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:49,100
I also experienced green or that went

556
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:52,730
along a during the middle of the night

557
00:29:58,600 --> 00:29:55,850
that went along both twice in fact once

558
00:30:01,690 --> 00:29:58,610
at the place in Arizona at her her

559
00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:01,700
living quarters there in Tucson and once

560
00:30:08,169 --> 00:30:04,280
in my own apartment in the East Village

561
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:08,179
of Manhattan I saw a green orbs that

562
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:10,880
went along the where you would say the

563
00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:12,290
electrical lines were probably

564
00:30:21,370 --> 00:30:15,950
underneath the wall you know what I'm

565
00:30:23,410 --> 00:30:21,380
trying to say yeah it was prior to the

566
00:30:31,030 --> 00:30:23,420
age of everybody having a cell phone in

567
00:30:33,070 --> 00:30:31,040
their back pocket yeah that a lot of the

568
00:30:37,299 --> 00:30:33,080
good sightings unfortunately were then

569
00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:37,309
yes and it's and now with all the

570
00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:40,070
electronics when you do get a cell phone

571
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:41,630
picture something you don't know if it's

572
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:44,210
right or faked because it's so easy to

573
00:30:53,980 --> 00:30:49,910
fake them yes in today's world let me

574
00:30:57,150 --> 00:30:53,990
say I was gonna say something like the

575
00:30:59,940 --> 00:30:57,160
tractor beams you were talking about

576
00:31:02,740 --> 00:30:59,950
well maybe it'll come to me in a minute

577
00:31:05,890 --> 00:31:02,750
it well it does bring to mind something

578
00:31:10,390 --> 00:31:05,900
else that happened recently that was

579
00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:10,400
more prosaic if you will I was up at at

580
00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:13,070
something called firewater I believe

581
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:14,390
it's called or River

582
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:16,970
fire fire fire water River something of

583
00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:18,770
that nature been there a couple of three

584
00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:21,590
times up in Providence Rhode Island did

585
00:31:28,090 --> 00:31:24,440
something that happens around midsummer

586
00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:28,100
night they put these fire barges on the

587
00:31:33,460 --> 00:31:31,310
water and people have kind of

588
00:31:36,190 --> 00:31:33,470
Renaissance II costumes on and they

589
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:36,200
float these fire things up and down the

590
00:31:40,540 --> 00:31:38,570
river in Providence Rhode Island so I

591
00:31:43,390 --> 00:31:40,550
have was there this summer and I've

592
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:43,400
visited that and I looked up in the sky

593
00:31:49,230 --> 00:31:46,610
as is my want to do and what do I see in

594
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:49,240
the sky but a multicolored lit

595
00:31:54,810 --> 00:31:52,490
multicolored lights that were moving in

596
00:31:58,300 --> 00:31:54,820
an erratic pattern stopping and starting

597
00:32:01,240 --> 00:31:58,310
and moving like it seemed to be they

598
00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:01,250
whatever whoever was in this thing was

599
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:04,100
surveying the fire water demonstration

600
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:08,240
at what altitude I couldn't be sure but

601
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:10,730
I would say at least that the altitude

602
00:32:15,070 --> 00:32:13,430
of a low-flying plane shall we say and I

603
00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:15,080
pointed it out to the people that were

604
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:17,030
accompanying me along with somebody who

605
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:19,370
was just standing there and that person

606
00:32:25,870 --> 00:32:23,090
said oh that's got to be a help me here

607
00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:25,880
Kate like a helicopter no not a

608
00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:28,310
helicopter whatever is a drone they said

609
00:32:33,550 --> 00:32:30,020
that's got to be a drone nobody

610
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:33,560
exhibited any interest whatsoever in

611
00:32:39,970 --> 00:32:36,050
this thing I did take a picture or two

612
00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:39,980
of this and Irina they did not come out

613
00:32:44,860 --> 00:32:42,470
although I was taking pictures of a lot

614
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:44,870
of other things now was it a UFO was it

615
00:32:50,050 --> 00:32:47,090
a drone I'd hardly say I don't know

616
00:32:51,940 --> 00:32:50,060
could have been either but the people

617
00:32:54,850 --> 00:32:51,950
around me they were blase they say oh

618
00:32:56,890 --> 00:32:54,860
that's a drone you know and they you

619
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:56,900
know they couldn't really see it see it

620
00:33:01,240 --> 00:32:58,880
see thee but you could see the lights

621
00:33:04,930 --> 00:33:01,250
you could see it moving erratically and

622
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:04,940
they just fluffed it off like par for

623
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:07,370
the course so to speak well III think

624
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:09,890
what what else can you say though that's

625
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:11,570
the whole thing they're objects are

626
00:33:17,050 --> 00:33:14,720
flying there unidentified it you know

627
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:17,060
it's a very frustrating field I'll tell

628
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:20,450
you I I'm quite impressed by your work

629
00:33:24,490 --> 00:33:22,370
in that you really followed through on

630
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:24,500
all your but what was your final

631
00:33:34,450 --> 00:33:30,340
conclusion fortunately I have no idea

632
00:33:36,490 --> 00:33:34,460
what your comment is yeah usually is a

633
00:33:39,370 --> 00:33:36,500
peach do you study things and then you

634
00:33:41,020 --> 00:33:39,380
know more about them uh-huh UFOs and I

635
00:33:43,150 --> 00:33:41,030
don't know anything about them there's

636
00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:43,160
no data you know there's no consistent

637
00:33:53,260 --> 00:33:48,350
data it's a problem do you feel good I'm

638
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:53,270
sure I was going to say is do you feel

639
00:34:02,700 --> 00:33:58,090
like there are fewer sightings now or

640
00:34:07,090 --> 00:34:02,710
like my possible sighting of the drone

641
00:34:09,250 --> 00:34:07,100
that the because of the technology it's

642
00:34:13,210 --> 00:34:09,260
getting harder to term determine the

643
00:34:16,750 --> 00:34:13,220
difference between a UFO and some other

644
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:16,760
modern technology I think that might be

645
00:34:21,570 --> 00:34:19,280
part of the trouble and part of the

646
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:21,580
trouble is it's so easy to think things

647
00:34:26,740 --> 00:34:25,130
that back in the old days if you had the

648
00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:26,750
camera with film and stuff you couldn't

649
00:34:32,350 --> 00:34:28,220
really fake things because they could

650
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:32,360
study him today you know exactly what's

651
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:34,130
going on and I'm not saying everybody's

652
00:34:41,740 --> 00:34:36,649
a fake or anything like that but it's

653
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:41,750
still very difficult to study

654
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:45,890
photography and things what was the the

655
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:49,490
latest UFO incident that you have

656
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:54,370
personally studied well well obviously

657
00:35:02,110 --> 00:34:56,690
I'm still working on Roswell

658
00:35:05,890 --> 00:35:02,120
and we announced in the book that we had

659
00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:05,900
a possible other new witness yes well

660
00:35:10,540 --> 00:35:08,990
event and I guess that's the most

661
00:35:13,330 --> 00:35:10,550
current because we're still working on

662
00:35:17,410 --> 00:35:13,340
it now and have found out some more

663
00:35:20,860 --> 00:35:17,420
things since I published the book but it

664
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:20,870
was this man that he was a deputy

665
00:35:25,660 --> 00:35:22,970
sheriff and he was traveling with

666
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:25,670
probably a sheriff from Big Springs

667
00:35:34,110 --> 00:35:31,490
Texas to Rustler and I had the

668
00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:34,120
impression had never heard of UFOs and

669
00:35:39,130 --> 00:35:36,350
they heard on the police radio that

670
00:35:41,230 --> 00:35:39,140
there was a crash and they found the

671
00:35:49,089 --> 00:35:41,240
roads some way and got too

672
00:35:51,790 --> 00:35:49,099
area and saw a craft that was it was

673
00:35:56,319 --> 00:35:51,800
approximately 100 feet in diameter and

674
00:35:58,599 --> 00:35:56,329
round and then they saw four bodies and

675
00:36:00,099 --> 00:35:58,609
they were wrapped up but they could sort

676
00:36:02,290 --> 00:36:00,109
of look at and when the wind blew and

677
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,300
things and they said they look kinda

678
00:36:04,420 --> 00:36:03,920
like people but not a whole lot like

679
00:36:06,819 --> 00:36:04,430
people

680
00:36:13,450 --> 00:36:06,829
mm-hmm he had a lift and they were

681
00:36:16,329 --> 00:36:13,460
lifting him into trucks and so we put

682
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:16,339
that in the book just where we were we

683
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:18,800
weren't saying is proving anything we

684
00:36:25,390 --> 00:36:21,770
just put it in for to put it in the

685
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:25,400
public domain because there was a video

686
00:36:32,020 --> 00:36:28,790
of the man that saw it it was taken in

687
00:36:34,030 --> 00:36:32,030
1999 he and the other person and the

688
00:36:39,790 --> 00:36:34,040
person that made the video and the first

689
00:36:43,410 --> 00:36:39,800
people that that examined everything are

690
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:43,420
all dead it came to my publisher

691
00:36:54,549 --> 00:36:48,079
he felt mantle and he had the material

692
00:36:57,180 --> 00:36:54,559
and we decided put in the book well we

693
00:37:01,150 --> 00:36:57,190
did find some people that knew him

694
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:01,160
advance phrase honesty and we're still

695
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:03,290
looking at that so that's new

696
00:37:08,289 --> 00:37:05,599
information that we didn't have in the

697
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:08,299
book well that that's gonna be

698
00:37:16,839 --> 00:37:10,880
interesting to read about are you

699
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:16,849
planning another book I don't know I'd

700
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:19,130
like to plan another book maybe but I

701
00:37:24,940 --> 00:37:22,270
haven't I don't have definite plans

702
00:37:27,039 --> 00:37:24,950
okay well that's fair enough I've I've

703
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:27,049
dreamed about writing several books that

704
00:37:29,859 --> 00:37:29,089
yes I have to get around to it I know

705
00:37:33,039 --> 00:37:29,869
what that's about

706
00:37:34,990 --> 00:37:33,049
so what is your final take on Roswell do

707
00:37:39,579 --> 00:37:35,000
you think something happened or nothing

708
00:37:41,289 --> 00:37:39,589
or maybe you're maybe not or I my

709
00:37:43,299 --> 00:37:41,299
conclusion on that was something

710
00:37:45,099 --> 00:37:43,309
definitely landed there and was taken

711
00:37:48,099 --> 00:37:45,109
away by the United States government to

712
00:37:50,410 --> 00:37:48,109
wright-patterson but what it was is sort

713
00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:50,420
of up in the air and the whole question

714
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:53,830
of bodies there's a lot of people that

715
00:37:59,900 --> 00:37:55,810
really have you know the old story

716
00:38:02,130 --> 00:37:59,910
nothing to gain and and so it has to be

717
00:38:04,110 --> 00:38:02,140
forced out of them that they were

718
00:38:08,540 --> 00:38:04,120
witnesses and I think a lot of them were

719
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,550
threatened with some nasty things but

720
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:10,720
well you know you have a lot of

721
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:12,370
information and what was your conclusion

722
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:15,760
on Roswell well I think something did

723
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:19,930
happen and idea that gave me firm you

724
00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:22,630
know pretty firm idea is that they had a

725
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:26,830
recording of a broadcast from Roswell

726
00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:32,310
that made while they were transporting

727
00:38:38,460 --> 00:38:35,350
the artifacts to wright-patterson and

728
00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:38,470
this was just a radio announcer from

729
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:40,900
Roswell he's doing his regular thing and

730
00:38:44,850 --> 00:38:42,450
he stopped right in the middle

731
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:44,860
broadcasts and said he had called

732
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:47,530
wright-patterson and the airplane was on

733
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:49,330
its way and about to land or something

734
00:38:54,830 --> 00:38:51,760
yes that was pretty concrete evidence

735
00:38:58,560 --> 00:38:54,840
that they sent something to right there

736
00:39:01,610 --> 00:38:58,570
absolutely I had I had the great good

737
00:39:04,830 --> 00:39:01,620
fortune of having a one-on-one

738
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:04,840
conversation with dr. Edgar Mitchell

739
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:09,760
dove the Apollo 14 astronaut who was

740
00:39:15,570 --> 00:39:12,910
actually as luck would have it he grew

741
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:15,580
up in Roswell long before the well not

742
00:39:20,850 --> 00:39:17,650
long before but somewhat before no

743
00:39:23,010 --> 00:39:20,860
coincidence no coincidences right but he

744
00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:23,020
told me in a small group of people that

745
00:39:28,860 --> 00:39:26,230
I was with he told us that absolutely

746
00:39:32,370 --> 00:39:28,870
beyond the shadow of a doubt he had a

747
00:39:35,490 --> 00:39:32,380
conversation with several people from

748
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:35,500
Roswell who knew his father who knew him

749
00:39:39,930 --> 00:39:38,050
who respected him sort of as the

750
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:39,940
all-american boy who made good and

751
00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:44,560
walked on the moon and that the funeral

752
00:39:50,610 --> 00:39:48,040
parlor director told him in no uncertain

753
00:39:54,270 --> 00:39:50,620
terms that he made these little coffins

754
00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:54,280
so that's you know I I respect him more

755
00:40:02,570 --> 00:39:56,710
than most people and I have to go along

756
00:40:07,650 --> 00:40:05,700
sounds good to me well the other thing

757
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:07,660
too is I was at a conference and some

758
00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:10,720
stood up with Mitchell and said all

759
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,150
right you know we're just a bunch of UFO

760
00:40:17,549 --> 00:40:15,520
nuts here you know no one's gonna listen

761
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:17,559
to anything that goes on here so please

762
00:40:23,059 --> 00:40:20,319
give us a straight story and he looked

763
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:23,069
right at the phone and said they're here

764
00:40:31,079 --> 00:40:28,210
so I again it was a type of man that you

765
00:40:33,029 --> 00:40:31,089
really believed for whatever reason well

766
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:33,039
the the other thing that happened about

767
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:37,170
him was that he gave a lecture in

768
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:40,480
downtown Manhattan on the 28th Street or

769
00:40:46,859 --> 00:40:43,119
something back a few years before he

770
00:40:49,220 --> 00:40:46,869
passed on and the invited guests to this

771
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:49,230
lecture beyond people who were

772
00:40:55,020 --> 00:40:52,000
ufologists and so forth were the

773
00:40:58,950 --> 00:40:55,030
graduating class of aviation high school

774
00:41:02,039 --> 00:40:58,960
in Garden City Queens Long Island and he

775
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:02,049
told them that they had better you know

776
00:41:06,779 --> 00:41:04,480
up their game to the point where they

777
00:41:10,849 --> 00:41:06,789
realized that in the future when they

778
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:10,859
were 40 years old and working on on

779
00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:13,210
avionics of some sort that this was

780
00:41:16,769 --> 00:41:14,529
going to be something that they were

781
00:41:19,380 --> 00:41:16,779
going to have to deal with and that yes

782
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:19,390
in fact that they were here so I agree

783
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:25,599
with Kate on that so in terms of what's

784
00:41:32,099 --> 00:41:28,450
your opinion on recent UFOs besides the

785
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:32,109
fact that you can't you can't really

786
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:34,690
tell if a photograph has been doctored

787
00:41:41,250 --> 00:41:37,839
too easily well there seem to be

788
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:41,260
actually more reports now than there had

789
00:41:47,549 --> 00:41:43,839
been in the past but there's more people

790
00:41:50,010 --> 00:41:47,559
and more objects that you can see and

791
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:50,020
not identify and people so have more

792
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:54,250
cameras so and also a big difference is

793
00:42:02,160 --> 00:41:58,480
the internet so that people used to just

794
00:42:05,279 --> 00:42:02,170
have like groups and you would contact

795
00:42:07,890 --> 00:42:05,289
the group and a lot of groups because

796
00:42:09,390 --> 00:42:07,900
this is sort of an off topic but now

797
00:42:10,740 --> 00:42:09,400
there's the internet and anybody can say

798
00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:10,750
anything on the Internet

799
00:42:17,130 --> 00:42:13,720
so there's a lot more and it's a lot

800
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:17,140
more possible to report things too now

801
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:19,740
you have you have looked at photographs

802
00:42:25,690 --> 00:42:21,050
professionally

803
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:25,700
your career at the DIA and also when you

804
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:31,310
were with Patel I assume and today we

805
00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:34,400
have digital photographs and the digital

806
00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:36,830
photographs when photographing an

807
00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:40,790
anomalous object often there they seem

808
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:44,180
to give off a signature wave pattern

809
00:42:52,510 --> 00:42:48,130
that's around the UFO we'll call it and

810
00:42:55,540 --> 00:42:52,520
and that it concludes some people to

811
00:42:58,780 --> 00:42:55,550
believe that the photograph was doctored

812
00:43:01,330 --> 00:42:58,790
but it leads other people to conclude

813
00:43:04,780 --> 00:43:01,340
that there is some form of a maybe a

814
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:04,790
heat pattern or something of a cosmic

815
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:06,890
wave pattern I don't know coming off the

816
00:43:14,290 --> 00:43:10,850
object can you speak to that all I think

817
00:43:17,770 --> 00:43:14,300
it's possible I had worked for Popular

818
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:17,780
Mechanics writing articles and one thing

819
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:23,450
I wrote about was how it was the process

820
00:43:29,740 --> 00:43:25,810
they were using to develop the stealth

821
00:43:32,620 --> 00:43:29,750
and I went to a stealth lab and watched

822
00:43:35,230 --> 00:43:32,630
how they very carefully tested materials

823
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:35,240
for the outside of the plane so that it

824
00:43:40,090 --> 00:43:37,910
would reflect radar and how they tested

825
00:43:43,450 --> 00:43:40,100
the shape of the plane and things like

826
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:43,460
that and so now they have stealth that

827
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:48,770
we have and it's possible that the

828
00:43:55,330 --> 00:43:52,370
objects have been employing stealth for

829
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:55,340
a long time and they have you know some

830
00:43:58,900 --> 00:43:57,440
surface or some kind of electronics

831
00:44:03,520 --> 00:43:58,910
around the surface or anything else that

832
00:44:06,190 --> 00:44:03,530
might interfere with radar just the

833
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:06,200
shaper and that sort of thing so have

834
00:44:12,670 --> 00:44:10,640
you ever seen one yourself I I don't

835
00:44:15,220 --> 00:44:12,680
know I saw something once but I didn't

836
00:44:16,930 --> 00:44:15,230
read have you ever heard of Marfa Texas

837
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:16,940
yes ma'am

838
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:23,450
there a number of times because I have

839
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:27,910
friends who live around there and have

840
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:31,520
looked at them but anyway in Marfa

841
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:33,200
there's these repeating lights and

842
00:44:36,539 --> 00:44:34,130
they've been

843
00:44:40,450 --> 00:44:36,549
see never since the eighteen hundreds

844
00:44:44,279 --> 00:44:40,460
there so they don't repeat in a regular

845
00:44:47,620 --> 00:44:44,289
pattern but they people see lights and

846
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:47,630
usually in the mountains south of Martha

847
00:44:55,839 --> 00:44:51,650
and Martha even put in a big expensive

848
00:44:57,729 --> 00:44:55,849
viewing area for people watch I've been

849
00:45:01,410 --> 00:44:57,739
at the viewing area and I've seen lights

850
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:01,420
but I thought they reads people cars on

851
00:45:09,370 --> 00:45:05,630
trails in the mountains and it didn't

852
00:45:12,969 --> 00:45:09,380
really impress me but my friends lived

853
00:45:15,940 --> 00:45:12,979
it in a house that was north of Market

854
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:15,950
quite a ways north about 20 miles but it

855
00:45:19,749 --> 00:45:17,839
was on a high mountain actually it was

856
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:19,759
on top of an extinct volcano which is

857
00:45:26,019 --> 00:45:24,079
interesting but they had a patio that

858
00:45:29,979 --> 00:45:26,029
overlooked where he could see often

859
00:45:31,749 --> 00:45:29,989
existence in see Martha and a porch in a

860
00:45:33,999 --> 00:45:31,759
big picture windows so I saw a lot of

861
00:45:37,089 --> 00:45:34,009
Marshall while I was there and I'd been

862
00:45:39,940 --> 00:45:37,099
there several times and one night very

863
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:39,950
late at night like about 11:30 I saw

864
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:43,729
this big light over Martha and I thought

865
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:45,200
well that's not gonna stay there very

866
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:47,089
long there's not a whole lot of planes

867
00:45:52,809 --> 00:45:50,450
it was sort of deserted area but I ran

868
00:45:54,190 --> 00:45:52,819
from my camcorder and got up to come

869
00:45:56,979 --> 00:45:54,200
back and it was still there

870
00:45:59,170 --> 00:45:56,989
and so I worried for a while I was

871
00:46:03,099 --> 00:45:59,180
really tired and I finally just quit

872
00:46:06,489 --> 00:46:03,109
because I was going to sleep but it was

873
00:46:08,380 --> 00:46:06,499
a big light over Martha and I called the

874
00:46:10,959 --> 00:46:08,390
airport and they said they hadn't seen

875
00:46:13,029 --> 00:46:10,969
anything but it's a local airport where

876
00:46:16,359 --> 00:46:13,039
they closed it like 5:30 and everybody

877
00:46:19,209 --> 00:46:16,369
goes home so I never knew I didn't

878
00:46:21,370 --> 00:46:19,219
really report it but I did film it well

879
00:46:25,569 --> 00:46:21,380
that's that's that's very interesting

880
00:46:28,209 --> 00:46:25,579
and I read that account in your book and

881
00:46:32,349 --> 00:46:28,219
you also I believe mentioned a place in

882
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:32,359
New Hampshire that also had similar a

883
00:46:37,450 --> 00:46:35,089
similar place where people viewed such

884
00:46:39,759 --> 00:46:37,460
lights and I and I know there's also one

885
00:46:43,839 --> 00:46:39,769
I don't know if it's in North Carolina

886
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:43,849
or Virginia as that that occurs as well

887
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:45,650
but I'd be very interested in finding

888
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:47,610
more information about then

889
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:49,890
Hampshire one because I'm more than

890
00:46:54,410 --> 00:46:51,810
likely to be in New Hampshire more often

891
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:54,420
than than Martha for sure but what about

892
00:46:59,630 --> 00:46:58,050
the the criticism of Marfa lights and

893
00:47:02,500 --> 00:46:59,640
general not a criticism but alternate

894
00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:02,510
explanation that it's like some form of

895
00:47:09,290 --> 00:47:07,110
piezoelectric or magnetic anomaly in the

896
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:09,300
earth that's caused by quartz crystals

897
00:47:13,490 --> 00:47:11,850
in the ground yada yada I don't know if

898
00:47:18,110 --> 00:47:13,500
I have that quite right but firstly if

899
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:18,120
there's an extinct volcano what do you

900
00:47:23,450 --> 00:47:19,890
say did that is that a possibility in

901
00:47:27,170 --> 00:47:23,460
your mind or not I don't know because I

902
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:27,180
never studied the and they have

903
00:47:34,850 --> 00:47:31,170
earthquake flights yes people seem to be

904
00:47:36,350 --> 00:47:34,860
pretty definite but I don't think there

905
00:47:38,810 --> 00:47:36,360
were any earthquake so I didn't really

906
00:47:41,780 --> 00:47:38,820
study the geology even have an idea

907
00:47:45,050 --> 00:47:41,790
where I was was a group of extinct

908
00:47:46,670 --> 00:47:45,060
volcanoes and I was on volcano that it

909
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:46,680
was extinct for a long time it sure

910
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:51,570
looked like a volcano and I didn't even

911
00:47:57,530 --> 00:47:53,520
know that there were extinct volcanoes

912
00:47:59,900 --> 00:47:57,540
in Texas did you I knew that there were

913
00:48:02,360 --> 00:47:59,910
there are extinct volcanoes and the

914
00:48:04,970 --> 00:48:02,370
Southwest because I've seen some of them

915
00:48:07,610 --> 00:48:04,980
I didn't you know I haven't explored

916
00:48:12,050 --> 00:48:07,620
Texas as fully as I probably should have

917
00:48:16,990 --> 00:48:12,060
at this point in my life but that's

918
00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:17,000
interesting yes so aside from Roswell

919
00:48:26,570 --> 00:48:21,180
what is your day you go Kate aside from

920
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:26,580
Roswell what is your favorite you know

921
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:29,520
the or most my favorite I mean the the

922
00:48:36,970 --> 00:48:32,730
most compelling case that you could

923
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:36,980
mention well the most compelling to me

924
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:39,810
have you ever heard of Hartley hardly

925
00:48:44,990 --> 00:48:40,650
Hartley

926
00:48:48,410 --> 00:48:45,000
Rutledge no no that's a new one on me

927
00:48:51,170 --> 00:48:48,420
he was a physics professor in head of

928
00:48:53,090 --> 00:48:51,180
the department is he that I who had all

929
00:48:57,590 --> 00:48:53,100
the UFO experiences that are referenced

930
00:48:59,180 --> 00:48:57,600
before yes okay so I did it I remember

931
00:48:59,870 --> 00:48:59,190
right I recall reading about him in the

932
00:49:01,400 --> 00:48:59,880
book yes

933
00:49:04,330 --> 00:49:01,410
so go forward with that I'm sorry

934
00:49:07,310 --> 00:49:04,340
interrupted really well he was a

935
00:49:08,660 --> 00:49:07,320
physicist with training and physics and

936
00:49:11,090 --> 00:49:08,670
head of the department and everything

937
00:49:14,810 --> 00:49:11,100
else and people were telling him about

938
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:14,820
UFO sightings in Missouri where he lived

939
00:49:21,170 --> 00:49:19,170
and he was a skeptic and so he decided

940
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:21,180
to go out with instruments and people

941
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,510
and explore and so he did and he was

942
00:49:28,940 --> 00:49:26,400
going to prove I'm wrong in two weeks

943
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:28,950
and get back to business well he went

944
00:49:39,050 --> 00:49:32,090
out and for the rest of his life

945
00:49:41,390 --> 00:49:39,060
studying he made one of the best studies

946
00:49:44,420 --> 00:49:41,400
ever though because he did it in a

947
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:44,430
scientific way of like I've been in

948
00:49:48,740 --> 00:49:47,040
biology and if you want to study animals

949
00:49:51,020 --> 00:49:48,750
you do field studies and you may go out

950
00:49:52,850 --> 00:49:51,030
see what time of day they come out and

951
00:49:55,130 --> 00:49:52,860
when they go back in their burrows and

952
00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:55,140
things we set up sir like that with

953
00:50:00,580 --> 00:49:57,510
field stations and all kinds of

954
00:50:03,410 --> 00:50:00,590
equipment photographic equipment and

955
00:50:07,820 --> 00:50:03,420
magnetometers and everything you can

956
00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:07,830
think of so that they can watch if a UFO

957
00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:12,180
came and they had ways of telling UFOs

958
00:50:18,050 --> 00:50:14,940
of guessing which were UFOs and which

959
00:50:23,390 --> 00:50:18,060
weren't it was during a flap there there

960
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:23,400
were a whole lot of sightings and he so

961
00:50:31,370 --> 00:50:26,970
that they actually did studies real time

962
00:50:33,350 --> 00:50:31,380
on UFOs which I don't think anybody

963
00:50:35,890 --> 00:50:33,360
really has ever done because they're

964
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:35,900
unpredictable but there were a lot

965
00:50:45,350 --> 00:50:40,410
happening then and they got recordings

966
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:45,360
of kind of interaction of UFOs such as

967
00:50:51,380 --> 00:50:48,420
when they would come to a station they

968
00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:51,390
might go around it instead of right past

969
00:51:01,070 --> 00:50:58,050
it they he said that when they tried to

970
00:51:02,510 --> 00:51:01,080
take pictures of UFOs if that wasn't

971
00:51:05,810 --> 00:51:02,520
like taking a picture of a tree or

972
00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:05,820
something that the pictures didn't turn

973
00:51:10,550 --> 00:51:07,710
out like what they expected at all

974
00:51:13,790 --> 00:51:10,560
sometimes and it was as if the UFOs

975
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:13,800
could kind of control their cameras

976
00:51:20,170 --> 00:51:16,050
and he wrote a book project

977
00:51:24,290 --> 00:51:20,180
identification but this was real time

978
00:51:27,830 --> 00:51:24,300
study done by a physicist and other

979
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:27,840
scientists using scientific method and

980
00:51:33,470 --> 00:51:29,220
that sort of thing so I think it was a

981
00:51:37,250 --> 00:51:33,480
real good study and pretty well showed

982
00:51:39,230 --> 00:51:37,260
something's going on but it also

983
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:39,240
explained things there seemed to be some

984
00:51:44,450 --> 00:51:41,970
high mental interaction where the UFO

985
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:44,460
would disguise itself as a star or

986
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,930
something and that sort of thing but it

987
00:51:54,650 --> 00:51:50,880
also kind of explained why there's not a

988
00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:54,660
lot of pictures of UFOs yes yes indeed

989
00:52:02,210 --> 00:51:58,680
well that brings me to some stuff that

990
00:52:04,550 --> 00:52:02,220
has happened both on this show and the

991
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:04,560
Kate Valentine UFO show which our

992
00:52:11,390 --> 00:52:08,610
co-host here Kate Valentine hosted prior

993
00:52:17,230 --> 00:52:11,400
to the shattered reality podcast which

994
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:17,240
we're now broadcasting and that is that

995
00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:21,570
inexplicably we have had things cut in

996
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:24,660
and out and on the Kate Valentine UFO

997
00:52:29,690 --> 00:52:27,090
show we're at that moment I was a guest

998
00:52:33,620 --> 00:52:29,700
along with another now deceased woman

999
00:52:35,930 --> 00:52:33,630
who was also a UFO experience er she was

1000
00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:35,940
interviewing the both of us and there

1001
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:40,380
was two engineers not just a friend mr.

1002
00:52:46,460 --> 00:52:43,290
bill but another engineer was on the

1003
00:52:49,340 --> 00:52:46,470
scene as well and the and made three

1004
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:49,350
copies if I'm right is that right yep

1005
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:52,290
made three copies of the show and it

1006
00:52:57,980 --> 00:52:54,810
completely disappeared from a

1007
00:53:01,040 --> 00:52:57,990
professional radio station recording

1008
00:53:06,590 --> 00:53:01,050
studio and then we had a MUFON

1009
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:06,600
investigator on on the chase klutz key

1010
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:11,370
we had a more Phonics investigator on

1011
00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:15,210
and it was like one of our it was one of

1012
00:53:19,850 --> 00:53:18,510
the show's prior to the 20th show I

1013
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:19,860
don't remember what the number would

1014
00:53:24,620 --> 00:53:22,650
have been and we you know read her

1015
00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:24,630
accounts and we were really excited to

1016
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:27,180
speak with her and again the

1017
00:53:33,890 --> 00:53:31,290
entire broadcast disappeared in addition

1018
00:53:37,370 --> 00:53:33,900
we've had other other anomalous things

1019
00:53:39,710 --> 00:53:37,380
happen which makes you think either is

1020
00:53:41,299 --> 00:53:39,720
is the government doing something I

1021
00:53:45,020 --> 00:53:41,309
don't know we don't we're very small

1022
00:53:50,809 --> 00:53:45,030
potatoes in terms of that or is it this

1023
00:53:54,859 --> 00:53:50,819
kind of telepathic issues with UFO

1024
00:53:59,390 --> 00:53:54,869
studies and how you know like at the the

1025
00:54:04,130 --> 00:53:59,400
Sherman skinwalker ranch the the cameras

1026
00:54:06,829 --> 00:54:04,140
get go defunct even when another camera

1027
00:54:08,930 --> 00:54:06,839
is watching them they they sure doubt

1028
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:08,940
and stuff it with no reason whatsoever

1029
00:54:14,089 --> 00:54:12,240
and the wires are cut even while cameras

1030
00:54:16,490 --> 00:54:14,099
are watching and no one's there to cut

1031
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:16,500
the wires it's like really baffling

1032
00:54:26,569 --> 00:54:20,490
stuff yeah I remember that reading that

1033
00:54:29,799 --> 00:54:26,579
and Harley Rutledge he said he got so he

1034
00:54:32,660 --> 00:54:29,809
could identify UFOs and I mean you know

1035
00:54:34,609 --> 00:54:32,670
airplanes have lights and sounds and

1036
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:34,619
things and he could distinguish

1037
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:36,780
airplanes from them and he saw quite a

1038
00:54:41,660 --> 00:54:39,450
few and he was a trained scientist when

1039
00:54:43,970 --> 00:54:41,670
they say scientists don't believe in

1040
00:54:47,510 --> 00:54:43,980
UFOs or they didn't see him well they do

1041
00:54:52,609 --> 00:54:47,520
and he admitted it he got harassed but

1042
00:54:56,450 --> 00:54:52,619
he still think the astronomer Clyde

1043
00:55:00,829 --> 00:54:56,460
Tombaugh saw was the discoverer of the

1044
00:55:03,620 --> 00:55:00,839
planet Pluto I believe that he he saw I

1045
00:55:07,579 --> 00:55:03,630
mean I think he was a an experiencer of

1046
00:55:09,410 --> 00:55:07,589
seeing UFOs was he not yes he was I

1047
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:09,420
think he saw more than one who or

1048
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:13,650
reported more than one in the dark yeah

1049
00:55:18,349 --> 00:55:15,960
I think another reason for droppin

1050
00:55:25,250 --> 00:55:18,359
sightings is that the sky is so light

1051
00:55:26,809 --> 00:55:25,260
these days yeah and people don't look up

1052
00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:26,819
anymore because there's nothing to see

1053
00:55:31,630 --> 00:55:28,200
so they're staring down at their

1054
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:31,640
cellphones yeah well yeah that too but

1055
00:55:35,930 --> 00:55:34,079
but then again but that's good too

1056
00:55:37,860 --> 00:55:35,940
because if they do see something it's

1057
00:55:41,580 --> 00:55:37,870
instant communication too

1058
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:41,590
I guess well I tried to take a picture

1059
00:55:48,330 --> 00:55:46,090
of the thing up in Providence and you

1060
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:48,340
know all I got was like a smear of light

1061
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:51,040
and none of my other pictures of the

1062
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:53,530
fire water and everything else turned

1063
00:55:58,800 --> 00:55:56,770
out they all turned out well so it's a

1064
00:56:00,630 --> 00:55:58,810
mystery so and it's it's a mystery it's

1065
00:56:05,100 --> 00:56:00,640
driving us all nuts do you think we'll

1066
00:56:11,130 --> 00:56:05,110
ever really know just what these things

1067
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:11,140
are it's just driving me crazy it's been

1068
00:56:16,830 --> 00:56:14,110
for what Oh way over 50 years I've been

1069
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:16,840
looking at this stuff and just nothing

1070
00:56:21,570 --> 00:56:19,720
that you can put together my son always

1071
00:56:23,580 --> 00:56:21,580
kids me he said you know I'm good he's

1072
00:56:33,570 --> 00:56:23,590
gonna be rounding the hall in some

1073
00:56:37,530 --> 00:56:33,580
Hospital somewhere go what is every what

1074
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:37,540
can be what's the point of keeping it

1075
00:56:42,030 --> 00:56:39,910
secret I mean yeah I know you know it's

1076
00:56:44,430 --> 00:56:42,040
gonna panic the general population yadda

1077
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:44,440
yadda yadda but I mean really what is

1078
00:56:48,510 --> 00:56:46,930
the point is it just that knowledge is

1079
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:48,520
power and they're keeping all the

1080
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:52,930
knowledge to themselves I just let us

1081
00:56:59,280 --> 00:56:57,130
know please I think there's a couple of

1082
00:57:01,350 --> 00:56:59,290
things going on okay I mean in terms of

1083
00:57:03,780 --> 00:57:01,360
everybody panicking there's the idea

1084
00:57:05,970 --> 00:57:03,790
that there's eight billion people on the

1085
00:57:09,300 --> 00:57:05,980
face of the earth and it may be only one

1086
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:09,310
in a hundred or one in a thousand would

1087
00:57:13,620 --> 00:57:10,960
panic but that's a hell of a lot of

1088
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:13,630
people you know that's one thing and the

1089
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:15,370
other thing that's more personal to me I

1090
00:57:21,290 --> 00:57:17,850
think that some people who have been

1091
00:57:23,460 --> 00:57:21,300
contacted the brains get fried from it

1092
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:23,470
well you know that that was the point

1093
00:57:27,210 --> 00:57:24,850
I've just got toward the end of your

1094
00:57:29,220 --> 00:57:27,220
conclusion saying that perhaps it is not

1095
00:57:31,470 --> 00:57:29,230
nuts and bolts but that it's something

1096
00:57:34,110 --> 00:57:31,480
that's going to lead to an evolution in

1097
00:57:36,980 --> 00:57:34,120
humanity and I think you were leading

1098
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:36,990
toward that line am I correct

1099
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:42,160
yeah after investigating and talking to

1100
00:57:47,490 --> 00:57:45,010
people and things it's like the two

1101
00:57:49,470 --> 00:57:47,500
sisters one saw one thing and one saw

1102
00:57:52,020 --> 00:57:49,480
another and I've had a number of

1103
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:52,030
examples of that and I also have exam

1104
00:57:58,890 --> 00:57:55,690
those of things merging and coming apart

1105
00:58:02,910 --> 00:57:58,900
and things like that in reports I've

1106
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:02,920
received from people and so I can't

1107
00:58:09,450 --> 00:58:06,130
really picture I mean I know I think UFO

1108
00:58:12,060 --> 00:58:09,460
phenomena is a big includes all kinds of

1109
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:12,070
things but I think one thing it includes

1110
00:58:17,210 --> 00:58:13,750
is something that we just don't

1111
00:58:20,550 --> 00:58:17,220
understand it's not like a craft that's

1112
00:58:24,570 --> 00:58:20,560
more like some form of interaction or

1113
00:58:29,370 --> 00:58:24,580
intelligence but that it's not like us

1114
00:58:31,350 --> 00:58:29,380
at all right right well you know well

1115
00:58:33,330 --> 00:58:31,360
know if they're aliens they're aliens

1116
00:58:38,670 --> 00:58:33,340
and they're not us so they wouldn't be

1117
00:58:42,510 --> 00:58:38,680
like us but but that whole mental state

1118
00:58:45,210 --> 00:58:42,520
was that was interesting it's a whole

1119
00:58:47,070 --> 00:58:45,220
different approach myself I'd just like

1120
00:58:49,290 --> 00:58:47,080
nuts and bolts I really hope it's

1121
00:58:51,690 --> 00:58:49,300
something you know once you get past

1122
00:58:56,100 --> 00:58:51,700
nuts and bolts it's something can the

1123
00:58:58,140 --> 00:58:56,110
average human really really I mean well

1124
00:59:01,860 --> 00:58:58,150
even if you think of something coming

1125
00:59:07,710 --> 00:59:01,870
from let's say for some reason it's from

1126
00:59:09,780 --> 00:59:07,720
a different star system that's 300 light

1127
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:09,790
years away which isn't that far away in

1128
00:59:18,020 --> 00:59:12,730
terms of the universe but let's say it

1129
00:59:22,020 --> 00:59:18,030
was somebody from 300 light years away

1130
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:22,030
what what would happen then is it's not

1131
00:59:28,980 --> 00:59:24,730
likely they'd be coming in a rocket

1132
00:59:35,790 --> 00:59:28,990
chemical rocket ship and so they may

1133
00:59:37,890 --> 00:59:35,800
take some sort of a wormhole the physics

1134
00:59:40,230 --> 00:59:37,900
I'm not good at I mean where most people

1135
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:40,240
are not there on physics to be able to

1136
00:59:44,790 --> 00:59:42,010
explain it but there must be an

1137
00:59:49,140 --> 00:59:44,800
alternate way for them to come here and

1138
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:49,150
therefore it could be using something

1139
00:59:53,970 --> 00:59:51,970
that's some type of interstellar drive

1140
00:59:58,770 --> 00:59:53,980
that we're not aware of and that they

1141
01:00:00,510 --> 00:59:58,780
they come in as ephemeral objects and do

1142
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:00,520
all kinds of strange things physically

1143
01:00:05,319 --> 01:00:02,890
that we're not able to well yeah I mean

1144
01:00:07,479 --> 01:00:05,329
Columbus couldn't they

1145
01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:07,489
a jet going across the ocean in a few

1146
01:00:12,789 --> 01:00:10,640
hours you know he was struggling through

1147
01:00:14,049 --> 01:00:12,799
a three thank you little fishing boats I

1148
01:00:17,229 --> 01:00:14,059
don't think these things are mutually

1149
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:17,239
exclusive and as we had stated at the

1150
01:00:20,940 --> 01:00:18,650
beginning of the show that these things

1151
01:00:26,670 --> 01:00:20,950
could be more than one thing right Irena

1152
01:00:30,370 --> 01:00:26,680
yes and you were talking about the green

1153
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:30,380
form well they made their form of UFO

1154
01:00:35,709 --> 01:00:33,650
too and if they're like little orbs are

1155
01:00:40,900 --> 01:00:35,719
called orbs if they're big things they

1156
01:00:43,239 --> 01:00:40,910
might be called UFOs right I they don't

1157
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:43,249
seem to be physical like us they seem to

1158
01:00:50,259 --> 01:00:48,410
be more like I mean we're molecular and

1159
01:00:53,309 --> 01:00:50,269
they don't impress me it's being

1160
01:00:56,890 --> 01:00:53,319
molecular like us but they're still

1161
01:00:59,319 --> 01:00:56,900
belong to the UFO phenomena and can

1162
01:01:01,989 --> 01:00:59,329
behave in intelligent ways they're

1163
01:01:07,930 --> 01:01:01,999
energy it seems like they are like some

1164
01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:07,940
form of energy uh-huh yeah so go ahead I

1165
01:01:14,109 --> 01:01:10,670
think that's part of it too so I think

1166
01:01:18,729 --> 01:01:14,119
it's a very complex mixture but I don't

1167
01:01:21,459 --> 01:01:18,739
think it's all cracked yes it's going to

1168
01:01:24,059 --> 01:01:21,469
be a mystery do you do you have anything

1169
01:01:26,949 --> 01:01:24,069
that we're coming towards a close here

1170
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:26,959
having been with you for about an hour

1171
01:01:31,900 --> 01:01:29,930
now so do you have anything you'd like

1172
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:31,910
to say beside you should give us once

1173
01:01:35,859 --> 01:01:34,130
again the title of the book you can get

1174
01:01:39,249 --> 01:01:35,869
it at Barnes & Noble you can get it on

1175
01:01:41,289 --> 01:01:39,259
Amazon give us once again the title of

1176
01:01:43,209 --> 01:01:41,299
the book because we really recommend

1177
01:01:46,180 --> 01:01:43,219
this book highly and we're particularly

1178
01:01:48,819 --> 01:01:46,190
impressed with you because women have a

1179
01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:48,829
hard time in the UFO field as well as in

1180
01:01:54,430 --> 01:01:52,640
astronomy and in other fields and they

1181
01:01:58,449 --> 01:01:54,440
still have a hard time in the UFO field

1182
01:02:03,549 --> 01:01:58,459
so lay it on us Irena regulations to

1183
01:02:06,189 --> 01:02:03,559
YouTube thank you it's UFOs today

1184
01:02:09,219 --> 01:02:06,199
seventy years of Lies misinformation and

1185
01:02:15,609 --> 01:02:09,229
government cover-up and if you just put

1186
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:15,619
Irena Scott Eyre en ASCO TT in the on

1187
01:02:19,270 --> 01:02:17,599
the internet under Google or something

1188
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:19,280
you should be able to find it

1189
01:02:24,670 --> 01:02:21,890
and be able to order it right then I

1190
01:02:28,090 --> 01:02:24,680
have a webpage called

1191
01:02:37,900 --> 01:02:28,100
Irina Scott dot-com and it tells how to

1192
01:02:42,070 --> 01:02:37,910
order it I'm on Facebook and and it's

1193
01:02:44,860 --> 01:02:42,080
where we're selling it as amazon.com and

1194
01:02:46,690 --> 01:02:44,870
so if people do have sightings or wanted

1195
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:46,700
to get in touch with you they can get in

1196
01:02:49,030 --> 01:02:48,290
touch with you through your Facebook

1197
01:02:53,290 --> 01:02:49,040
itself

1198
01:02:55,330 --> 01:02:53,300
yes Facebook I think you sent a message

1199
01:02:57,100 --> 01:02:55,340
to somebody that's not gonna face yes

1200
01:02:59,200 --> 01:02:57,110
well that's messenger there they've got

1201
01:03:03,400 --> 01:02:59,210
messenger there for facebook for that

1202
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:03,410
purpose direct messages and and so forth

1203
01:03:09,190 --> 01:03:06,890
so I'll before we say goodbye anything

1204
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:09,200
you want to add to what we've talked

1205
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:12,050
about we'd love to hear it well I think

1206
01:03:22,270 --> 01:03:19,210
it's very very very complicated and that

1207
01:03:24,460 --> 01:03:22,280
part of it's probably something that we

1208
01:03:26,550 --> 01:03:24,470
don't understand very well but it may

1209
01:03:29,580 --> 01:03:26,560
have something to do with quantum

1210
01:03:35,620 --> 01:03:29,590
mechanics and that type of new physics

1211
01:03:37,540 --> 01:03:35,630
we're just now learning about well we'd

1212
01:03:39,610 --> 01:03:37,550
like to thank you so much for being with

1213
01:03:41,620 --> 01:03:39,620
us today really for taking the time I

1214
01:03:44,410 --> 01:03:41,630
was so appreciated it's an honor and

1215
01:03:47,380 --> 01:03:44,420
wonderful job to you yeah it's really an

1216
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:47,390
honor you know a person of science such

1217
01:03:56,140 --> 01:03:52,730
as yourself and we really applaud you so

1218
01:03:57,850 --> 01:03:56,150
thanks so much dr. irina scott and good

1219
01:03:59,110 --> 01:03:57,860
luck with your studies if you find

1220
01:04:01,270 --> 01:03:59,120
something definitive

1221
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:01,280
give us a call yeah give us a call

1222
01:04:04,570 --> 01:04:02,690
anyway we're always happy to hear that

1223
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:04,580
you probably read about you first though

1224
01:04:12,790 --> 01:04:08,570
right okay I suppose thanks again bye

1225
01:04:14,590 --> 01:04:12,800
now iein thank you and we of course

1226
01:04:18,010 --> 01:04:14,600
would like to thank dr. Irene is Scott

1227
01:04:23,710 --> 01:04:18,020
for being with us but now mr. Anthony

1228
01:04:27,010 --> 01:04:23,720
Santos oh who is a well-known figurative

1229
01:04:31,330 --> 01:04:27,020
artist in the magic realism school of

1230
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:31,340
painting really somebody whose artwork

1231
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:33,050
you should get to know

1232
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:34,730
and could you mention your website

1233
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:39,650
Anthony well there's no website it's

1234
01:04:46,030 --> 01:04:41,390
just a blog you just type in my name

1235
01:04:48,220 --> 01:04:46,040
Anthony Santo so dot blog spot.com yes

1236
01:04:50,140 --> 01:04:48,230
okay do you want to spell Santa well so

1237
01:04:50,970 --> 01:04:50,150
because not everybody knows how to spell

1238
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:50,980
it

1239
01:04:59,590 --> 01:04:55,760
Anthony spelled anth ony and Santa also

1240
01:05:01,270 --> 01:04:59,600
is about si and tu o as well I've seen

1241
01:05:05,140 --> 01:05:01,280
some of these paintings and they're

1242
01:05:06,910 --> 01:05:05,150
truly glorious and they do I'm glad you

1243
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:06,920
like them you know yeah if you just

1244
01:05:10,270 --> 01:05:08,570
google my name it'll come up you don't

1245
01:05:13,470 --> 01:05:10,280
need anybody Anthony say it the world

1246
01:05:15,580 --> 01:05:13,480
and they do cover some sort of mystical

1247
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:15,590
aspects in them there are mystical

1248
01:05:20,890 --> 01:05:18,890
concepts which you and dream dream

1249
01:05:23,650 --> 01:05:20,900
pictures as well so I'm mentioning this

1250
01:05:28,090 --> 01:05:23,660
because these are areas that we cover

1251
01:05:31,540 --> 01:05:28,100
here on shadowed reality podcast and if

1252
01:05:36,610 --> 01:05:31,550
I recall correctly you have two stories

1253
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:36,620
to tell us one concerns a deceased uncle

1254
01:05:42,730 --> 01:05:39,890
and deceased cousin of yours and what

1255
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:42,740
happened to them along the Jersey Shore

1256
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:45,530
so if you would like to to start out

1257
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:47,330
with that one Anthony we would really

1258
01:05:53,110 --> 01:05:50,810
appreciate that well I'd be happy to

1259
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:53,120
tell you I had an uncle who was and not

1260
01:05:56,380 --> 01:05:54,650
all that much older than me and my

1261
01:05:58,570 --> 01:05:56,390
cousin it was my age and they liked to

1262
01:06:00,580 --> 01:05:58,580
go fishing is what they like to do and

1263
01:06:04,090 --> 01:06:00,590
they'd go down to the Jersey Shore and

1264
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:04,100
they'd fish at night for us striped bass

1265
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:06,290
actually and they'd stand on the jetties

1266
01:06:11,710 --> 01:06:08,810
the rocks go down to the ocean sometimes

1267
01:06:13,330 --> 01:06:11,720
up 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning so they

1268
01:06:16,750 --> 01:06:13,340
were out there one night they had a fire

1269
01:06:19,450 --> 01:06:16,760
gone too and and my uncle was out on the

1270
01:06:21,820 --> 01:06:19,460
jetty and he claimed this said he told

1271
01:06:25,570 --> 01:06:21,830
me this story over a Christmas dinner

1272
01:06:27,820 --> 01:06:25,580
conversation he claimed that wow what he

1273
01:06:30,850 --> 01:06:27,830
described as a flying saucer or just a

1274
01:06:34,270 --> 01:06:30,860
kind of bright spinning orb so that came

1275
01:06:35,490 --> 01:06:34,280
down above him and my cousin Randy my

1276
01:06:39,250 --> 01:06:35,500
uncle's name was Eddie

1277
01:06:42,910 --> 01:06:39,260
Randy ran away in fear and Dunkel Eddie

1278
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:42,920
claims he called helter them to make

1279
01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:44,930
contact and then he sort of disappeared

1280
01:06:49,450 --> 01:06:46,910
so anyway it was just a funny story

1281
01:06:50,499 --> 01:06:49,460
and I said to my uncle are you serious

1282
01:06:53,859 --> 01:06:50,509
and he said go ask

1283
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:53,869
Randi's in the other room that which we

1284
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:55,970
had two rooms people were eating and so

1285
01:06:59,170 --> 01:06:57,650
I went any other room and I said Randy

1286
01:07:01,210 --> 01:06:59,180
would you please tell me the story about

1287
01:07:02,529 --> 01:07:01,220
the jetties and the Flying Saucer with

1288
01:07:04,630 --> 01:07:02,539
Uncle Eddie and if they needed my

1289
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:04,640
cousin's I don't want to talk about it I

1290
01:07:09,249 --> 01:07:06,529
said well what's the problem is I just

1291
01:07:11,109 --> 01:07:09,259
don't want to talk about don't ask me so

1292
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:11,119
he never would speak about it and Uncle

1293
01:07:14,380 --> 01:07:12,319
Eddie what's claimed but this is

1294
01:07:18,339 --> 01:07:14,390
something to happen and where was this

1295
01:07:21,819 --> 01:07:18,349
exactly Anthony Long Branch Long Branch

1296
01:07:26,019 --> 01:07:21,829
New Jersey on objective and it was a

1297
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:26,029
summertime and that was a story and I

1298
01:07:29,140 --> 01:07:27,920
can never get any further into it

1299
01:07:32,170 --> 01:07:29,150
because they went gaming here more

1300
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:32,180
information but he he scared my cousin

1301
01:07:36,130 --> 01:07:34,130
and my uncle claims it's absolutely true

1302
01:07:37,809 --> 01:07:36,140
so I thought it was kind of an

1303
01:07:41,859 --> 01:07:37,819
interesting story that's why I haven't

1304
01:07:44,049 --> 01:07:41,869
mentioned well I can I don't know I knew

1305
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:44,059
your uncle Eddie and he told me as well

1306
01:07:49,509 --> 01:07:46,130
so I can verify that he called me

1307
01:07:51,279 --> 01:07:49,519
basically the same story and that he ran

1308
01:08:04,720 --> 01:07:51,289
out there and he was ready for them to

1309
01:08:07,089 --> 01:08:04,730
whoop them up I don't know now he even

1310
01:08:09,789 --> 01:08:07,099
he wouldn't make up fake stories it's

1311
01:08:12,009 --> 01:08:09,799
not like him to do that he had an

1312
01:08:14,289 --> 01:08:12,019
experience and he described it as the

1313
01:08:17,079 --> 01:08:14,299
best he could and it was a fairly

1314
01:08:20,620 --> 01:08:17,089
typical story about you know lights in

1315
01:08:23,939 --> 01:08:20,630
the sky and the size of the thing the

1316
01:08:27,459 --> 01:08:23,949
scale of it and it frightened him and

1317
01:08:29,140 --> 01:08:27,469
but I'm Randi ran away but that was the

1318
01:08:31,209 --> 01:08:29,150
extent of that story and then like I

1319
01:08:33,099 --> 01:08:31,219
said I could never get any further into

1320
01:08:35,349 --> 01:08:33,109
it because he Randy wouldn't verify it

1321
01:08:38,349 --> 01:08:35,359
they didn't coincidentally both died

1322
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:38,359
about 20 years after the action 30 years

1323
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:39,409
after the event

1324
01:08:46,090 --> 01:08:42,290
one of cancer one of a kind of lupus

1325
01:08:48,129 --> 01:08:46,100
problem so I don't know whether you know

1326
01:08:52,870 --> 01:08:48,139
what the effect was but they didn't all

1327
01:08:56,189 --> 01:08:52,880
die and relatively young to Eddie was 67

1328
01:08:59,620 --> 01:08:56,199
and Randy was only in his 40s I think

1329
01:09:00,880 --> 01:08:59,630
yes it is that's what unfortunate an

1330
01:09:04,150 --> 01:09:00,890
unfortunate seeing

1331
01:09:06,460 --> 01:09:04,160
chronicity as we would say and and if I

1332
01:09:11,050 --> 01:09:06,470
recall correctly although you had said

1333
01:09:14,020 --> 01:09:11,060
that your cousin Randy had died of lupus

1334
01:09:17,470 --> 01:09:14,030
related condition he also suffered from

1335
01:09:19,210 --> 01:09:17,480
cancer did he not yeah yeah can't you

1336
01:09:21,820 --> 01:09:19,220
know all kinds of problems he developed

1337
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:21,830
many heart many problems yeah the can

1338
01:09:26,620 --> 01:09:23,570
some kind of skin cancer

1339
01:09:29,470 --> 01:09:26,630
he had lupus see hey he was infested

1340
01:09:32,110 --> 01:09:29,480
with different health problems for the

1341
01:09:34,540 --> 01:09:32,120
major part of his adult life it seems

1342
01:09:37,090 --> 01:09:34,550
well we mourn their loss the loss and we

1343
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:37,100
apologize for bringing that part of the

1344
01:09:47,230 --> 01:09:41,330
story up the second part has to do or

1345
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:47,240
with your with your father mm-hmm go

1346
01:09:52,660 --> 01:09:49,520
ahead yes my son my father had one of

1347
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:52,670
those experiences where he he died for a

1348
01:09:56,140 --> 01:09:54,050
minute or two maybe I don't know how

1349
01:09:57,490 --> 01:09:56,150
long you can die for but they brought

1350
01:10:00,310 --> 01:09:57,500
him back to life he was in a hospital

1351
01:10:02,910 --> 01:10:00,320
actually they were working on him he had

1352
01:10:06,970 --> 01:10:02,920
heart trouble and his heart stopped and

1353
01:10:09,700 --> 01:10:06,980
I guess he's straight-lined and he

1354
01:10:12,460 --> 01:10:09,710
suddenly saw himself from above looking

1355
01:10:15,310 --> 01:10:12,470
down at the table and wondered why

1356
01:10:17,230 --> 01:10:15,320
everybody was running around and seemed

1357
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:17,240
so agitated he couldn't figure out what

1358
01:10:22,030 --> 01:10:19,850
it was but he felt inclined to turn away

1359
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:22,040
from the whole thing which he did and

1360
01:10:27,670 --> 01:10:24,170
then he was attracted to some kind of a

1361
01:10:30,100 --> 01:10:27,680
source of light which he then followed

1362
01:10:32,710 --> 01:10:30,110
or pursued and found himself in a

1363
01:10:35,950 --> 01:10:32,720
channel or tunnels or bridges of some

1364
01:10:37,480 --> 01:10:35,960
sort and going around and finding all

1365
01:10:39,310 --> 01:10:37,490
kinds of people he used to know

1366
01:10:41,020 --> 01:10:39,320
including his all the people that have

1367
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:41,030
passed away his mother and his father

1368
01:10:47,730 --> 01:10:45,050
and his sister and basically the the

1369
01:10:50,620 --> 01:10:47,740
interesting thing about that story was

1370
01:10:52,900 --> 01:10:50,630
that it was a very happy event he felt

1371
01:10:54,820 --> 01:10:52,910
very good it's like he said you know we

1372
01:10:56,290 --> 01:10:54,830
only he only figured out he had this

1373
01:10:58,540 --> 01:10:56,300
experience because we were watching

1374
01:11:00,400 --> 01:10:58,550
something on TV one night many years ago

1375
01:11:02,590 --> 01:11:00,410
I think was called that's incredible

1376
01:11:04,510 --> 01:11:02,600
people were telling stories which is

1377
01:11:06,940 --> 01:11:04,520
similar to his so he said I had that

1378
01:11:09,100 --> 01:11:06,950
experience and I confessed them that his

1379
01:11:11,710 --> 01:11:09,110
heart did stopped and they brought him

1380
01:11:13,540 --> 01:11:11,720
back to life and like I said the most

1381
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:13,550
interesting thing of power upon it for

1382
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:14,560
me in any way

1383
01:11:19,470 --> 01:11:17,170
it was a very happy experience and

1384
01:11:21,690 --> 01:11:19,480
actually transformed him for a few years

1385
01:11:25,410 --> 01:11:21,700
he had a smile on his face which is not

1386
01:11:27,450 --> 01:11:25,420
typical of him and you know it seemed

1387
01:11:29,490 --> 01:11:27,460
like he lost a certain fear of death as

1388
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:29,500
a consequence that's a big night

1389
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:32,050
wouldn't I say I guess that's a big deal

1390
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:35,170
yes the interesting thing that that I

1391
01:11:41,550 --> 01:11:37,330
you mentioned but I don't think was

1392
01:11:47,010 --> 01:11:41,560
really accentuated in your your dialogue

1393
01:11:49,740 --> 01:11:47,020
here is that he didn't realize when he

1394
01:11:52,380 --> 01:11:49,750
when this occurred that he had in fact

1395
01:11:55,620 --> 01:11:52,390
his heart had stopped and it met one of

1396
01:11:58,500 --> 01:11:55,630
the clinical ideas of death you know

1397
01:12:01,080 --> 01:11:58,510
that's one clinical right okay yeah no

1398
01:12:03,570 --> 01:12:01,090
yeah no he had no idea we never told

1399
01:12:05,550 --> 01:12:03,580
them they never told them he had no idea

1400
01:12:08,340 --> 01:12:05,560
just had this experience when his heart

1401
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:08,350
did stop and then it was reminded of it

1402
01:12:12,180 --> 01:12:09,970
because of this television show

1403
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:12,190
basically and then every recalled very

1404
01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:14,410
clearly that he had a very similar

1405
01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:17,920
experience and he went ahead and in

1406
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:20,110
trying to tell me about it I'm matter of

1407
01:12:23,730 --> 01:12:21,610
fact I'm making a painting now which

1408
01:12:25,980 --> 01:12:23,740
kind of relates to it really I'm trying

1409
01:12:28,740 --> 01:12:25,990
to yeah I'm trying to make a kind of

1410
01:12:30,930 --> 01:12:28,750
afterlife painting of kind of a

1411
01:12:33,420 --> 01:12:30,940
pleasurable journey a wonderful

1412
01:12:35,100 --> 01:12:33,430
experience is a good joyful thing it's

1413
01:12:38,670 --> 01:12:35,110
like a joyful death picture if you want

1414
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:38,680
to call it that because you know death

1415
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:40,570
is a major issue and when you can

1416
01:12:45,180 --> 01:12:43,510
somehow come to or make friends with it

1417
01:12:46,980 --> 01:12:45,190
and make a realization of what it

1418
01:12:49,470 --> 01:12:46,990
actually is is I think it transforms

1419
01:12:51,180 --> 01:12:49,480
your whole life and it certainly was it

1420
01:12:53,130 --> 01:12:51,190
didn't I have to admit it didn't stick

1421
01:12:56,250 --> 01:12:53,140
see after a few years it went back being

1422
01:12:57,570 --> 01:12:56,260
a grumpy old man but but I still think

1423
01:12:59,250 --> 01:12:57,580
he wasn't any I think he was

1424
01:13:01,170 --> 01:12:59,260
fundamentally transformed not so much

1425
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:01,180
afraid of death anymore I think he was

1426
01:13:06,540 --> 01:13:03,370
at that point of creative life and all

1427
01:13:08,340 --> 01:13:06,550
the things you know all the things that

1428
01:13:11,550 --> 01:13:08,350
are kept in you know that was necessary

1429
01:13:13,410 --> 01:13:11,560
to keep him alive but ya know even it

1430
01:13:16,230 --> 01:13:13,420
was transformed by the experience in

1431
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:16,240
regard to this picture that you've been

1432
01:13:25,530 --> 01:13:20,880
painting I would like to invite you to

1433
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:25,540
mail us jpg you know a photo on the

1434
01:13:31,710 --> 01:13:28,210
internet so we can place it

1435
01:13:34,350 --> 01:13:31,720
on this on our both of our websites and

1436
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:34,360
use it in our YouTube when we put this

1437
01:13:38,340 --> 01:13:37,210
session up on YouTube do you have

1438
01:13:43,410 --> 01:13:38,350
anything else you'd like to add to

1439
01:13:45,750 --> 01:13:43,420
either of these stories Anthony only and

1440
01:13:47,970 --> 01:13:45,760
I noticed more than meets the eyes and

1441
01:13:51,390 --> 01:13:47,980
it takes a kind of special attitude to

1442
01:13:55,860 --> 01:13:51,400
see the whole picture and so the letting

1443
01:13:57,990 --> 01:13:55,870
go of judgments and sarcasm and cynicism

1444
01:14:00,180 --> 01:13:58,000
and really just letting the world tell

1445
01:14:01,650 --> 01:14:00,190
you its story and sometimes that comes

1446
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:01,660
through other people and their

1447
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:03,490
experiences which i think is what I just

1448
01:14:08,370 --> 01:14:05,650
tried to tell you about yes yes well

1449
01:14:11,070 --> 01:14:08,380
certainly if you know of any other

1450
01:14:12,810 --> 01:14:11,080
listeners to shatter'd reality or just

1451
01:14:15,180 --> 01:14:12,820
other people who would like to express

1452
01:14:17,850 --> 01:14:15,190
their experience on shadowed reality

1453
01:14:20,190 --> 01:14:17,860
podcast I really hope you'll let us know

1454
01:14:22,110 --> 01:14:20,200
and Kate you want to you want to say

1455
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:22,120
goodbye to Anthony you want to make some

1456
01:14:28,350 --> 01:14:23,890
comments yes I would like to say goodbye

1457
01:14:30,330 --> 01:14:28,360
to yesterday but but but basically I

1458
01:14:32,190 --> 01:14:30,340
think it's great that you came on and

1459
01:14:34,710 --> 01:14:32,200
shared that experience because people

1460
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:34,720
like to hear this and it happens to

1461
01:14:39,090 --> 01:14:36,640
people and then they think wow maybe I'm

1462
01:14:40,980 --> 01:14:39,100
a little bit off on this but when other

1463
01:14:42,900 --> 01:14:40,990
people have had the same thing it makes

1464
01:14:45,990 --> 01:14:42,910
them feel much more confident that yeah

1465
01:14:47,550 --> 01:14:46,000
I did experience it it was good and so

1466
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:47,560
it's great that you shared this I think

1467
01:14:52,260 --> 01:14:50,170
he'll help a lot of people yeah I bet

1468
01:14:54,060 --> 01:14:52,270
you I imagine before he before he's

1469
01:14:56,490 --> 01:14:54,070
reminded of it I bet you thought it was

1470
01:14:58,500 --> 01:14:56,500
just a kind of dream of some sort which

1471
01:15:01,980 --> 01:14:58,510
is very very much what it all seems like

1472
01:15:03,630 --> 01:15:01,990
anyway but then you know seeing other

1473
01:15:05,250 --> 01:15:03,640
people having like you said seeing other

1474
01:15:07,610 --> 01:15:05,260
people having a similar experience he

1475
01:15:10,020 --> 01:15:07,620
realized that he had this experience

1476
01:15:13,710 --> 01:15:10,030
well people who have had the experience

1477
01:15:14,850 --> 01:15:13,720
and do talk about it when asked if it

1478
01:15:18,090 --> 01:15:14,860
was like a dream

1479
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:18,100
they said they say often that it was

1480
01:15:24,270 --> 01:15:21,250
more real than waking reality so that's

1481
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:24,280
I've not had a near-death experience

1482
01:15:31,650 --> 01:15:27,130
knock on wood which is my wooden head

1483
01:15:34,350 --> 01:15:31,660
but that's that's that's what I hear

1484
01:15:36,150 --> 01:15:34,360
from the experiences of that well it was

1485
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:36,160
very real to my father I can tell you

1486
01:15:40,410 --> 01:15:38,170
that it was a very real experience what

1487
01:15:40,700 --> 01:15:40,420
was that's what was so nice about it or

1488
01:15:44,270 --> 01:15:40,710
what

1489
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:44,280
just some kind of hazy foggy wonder you

1490
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:45,930
know wonder what's going on kind of

1491
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:47,850
thing it was more like going in a place

1492
01:15:52,670 --> 01:15:49,890
and meeting up with people you haven't

1493
01:15:56,060 --> 01:15:52,680
seen for a long time and I mean we all

1494
01:15:58,100 --> 01:15:56,070
have experienced um buddy who's passed

1495
01:16:00,770 --> 01:15:58,110
away you hug them or something and it

1496
01:16:02,660 --> 01:16:00,780
was but it was very very clear it's the

1497
01:16:05,390 --> 01:16:02,670
way he put it was very very concrete

1498
01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:05,400
experience yes it wasn't ephemeral it

1499
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:08,640
was a very clear experience well again

1500
01:16:12,590 --> 01:16:10,170
thank you for sharing that really

1501
01:16:15,170 --> 01:16:12,600
appreciate it yes I do too we really

1502
01:16:18,470 --> 01:16:15,180
appreciate it and we will put your

1503
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:18,480
painting on both of our websites and

1504
01:16:24,740 --> 01:16:21,570
that one of Anthony's paintings can be

1505
01:16:27,530 --> 01:16:24,750
seen on my blog one of my blog posts I

1506
01:16:30,530 --> 01:16:27,540
have used it in terms of it's a dream

1507
01:16:33,110 --> 01:16:30,540
painting that you made so we're all out

1508
01:16:35,020 --> 01:16:33,120
there rooting for Anthony to sell lots

1509
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:35,030
of his wonderful magical realism

1510
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:38,880
paintings thanks Anthony and I'm sure if

1511
01:16:42,140 --> 01:16:40,410
you know even if you don't buy them take

1512
01:16:43,820 --> 01:16:42,150
a look right she'll be there op

1513
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:43,830
therefore you're into that right Anthony

1514
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:45,810
thank you so much you bye Nana

1515
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:48,810
bye bye thanks Wow okay I think we had

1516
01:16:55,310 --> 01:16:51,930
really a big big show today that was

1517
01:16:57,500 --> 01:16:55,320
very good in both in both regards don't

1518
01:17:02,030 --> 01:16:57,510
you think absolutely and this is big

1519
01:17:06,830 --> 01:17:02,040
number 55 all right our next our next

1520
01:17:09,140 --> 01:17:06,840
show is going to be a researcher named

1521
01:17:11,630 --> 01:17:09,150
David Booher and I'm hope I'm

1522
01:17:15,260 --> 01:17:11,640
pronouncing his name correctly and he

1523
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:15,270
has written about one particular case

1524
01:17:22,340 --> 01:17:18,090
he's a researcher and he has gone into

1525
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:22,350
great depths about a case which seems to

1526
01:17:27,740 --> 01:17:26,250
indicate an abduction and I'm not gonna

1527
01:17:30,950 --> 01:17:27,750
tell you any more than that right now

1528
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:30,960
but that's purportedly our next podcast

1529
01:17:37,370 --> 01:17:34,050
and we hope it does work out as we plan

1530
01:17:41,209 --> 01:17:37,380
but if anyone's listening that have had

1531
01:17:43,459 --> 01:17:41,219
abduction experiences please put them on

1532
01:17:45,380 --> 01:17:43,469
our website you know you don't have to

1533
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:45,390
use your name but we'd love to hear from

1534
01:17:50,450 --> 01:17:48,320
you um that's something that you know

1535
01:17:52,910 --> 01:17:50,460
Purusha goes through a tremendous amount

1536
01:17:54,020 --> 01:17:52,920
of time and effort to get these podcasts

1537
01:17:55,790 --> 01:17:54,030
together and

1538
01:17:59,060 --> 01:17:55,800
times it's nice to know that somebody's

1539
01:18:03,620 --> 01:17:59,070
out there listening indeed initiated and

1540
01:18:06,470 --> 01:18:03,630
also our guests are uniformly excellent

1541
01:18:08,690 --> 01:18:06,480
and have really interesting things to

1542
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:08,700
say and we hope that it's not just out

1543
01:18:12,440 --> 01:18:10,170
there in the void somewhere so we'd

1544
01:18:16,060 --> 01:18:12,450
really like to hear from you and since

1545
01:18:18,620 --> 01:18:16,070
it is abduction time next next episode

1546
01:18:21,050 --> 01:18:18,630
would really you know if you've had some

1547
01:18:24,410 --> 01:18:21,060
and I know there's experiences out there

1548
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:24,420
so pop them on the website or send us a

1549
01:18:27,530 --> 01:18:26,010
message and we'll get in touch with you

1550
01:18:33,110 --> 01:18:27,540
all righty now

1551
01:18:35,300 --> 01:18:33,120
or we'll send someone to get and one of

1552
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:35,310
the men in black maybe or in this case